In the light of what's happening among the vloggers from another Deaf aggregator nowadays, I want to step on the soapbox to share what I have been witnessing in the Deaf-centered aggregators over the last 4 years.
I have seen again and again at how the people react when one finds himself/herself disagreeing with a certain person's perspective... the feathers are usually ruffled and then some people would either/both blog/vlog about it, targeting certain people they disagree with. Sometimes one would go far to commit prejudice (sexism, ageism, you name it.) Amy Cohen Efron explained her experience with the harassment which got so bad that her workplace was contacted by whoever disagreed with her blog. Several people have had their employers contacted, just merely because the callers disagreed with their opinions.
http://www.deafeyeseeit.com/2010/09/24/disillusionment-with-the-deaf-community/
I want to state that I SUPPORTED one's contacting another's workplace because the employee used his students to investigate on one certain vlogger's background and he revealed the vlogger's personal information online, as well as he mocked fun of her sexually... that is sexual harassment :-( Of course, a few other vloggers mocked fun of her sexually as well. That I do NOT support... The point is when one disagrees, one does NOT have to resort to emotional and sexual harassment just to have an upper hand.
Sure makes the cyberspace a fun place to feel safe in, huh? Not...
I do remember four years ago, after the Deaf Bilingual Coalition's first convention held in Milwaukee, WI, amid the disagreements and agreements, I came across one blog that stated a letter was sent to one core member's employer and I was taken back by it... why would one go that far to contact one's employer? I mentioned it in a few comments, making it clear that I was disappointed with that action and that even though I did not always agree with the core member, I still admired her a lot (even today I still admire her.) As soon as the word spread around, the information about the letter supposedly sent to her employer was removed from DeafRead, so even to this day, I have NO idea if it actually was sent to her employer or not. But... oh man, I believe that was my first witness of the harassment which got out of the cyberspace, affecting the real lives of bloggers/vloggers.
Sure, I disagree and I don't mince words over it. So what? But actually overstepping the boundaries... not in me. I respect people's PERSONAL boundaries, even the ones I am not crazy about. That's called RESPECT.
Whatever happens in Deaf cyberspace... stays in Deaf cyberspace.
UPDATED: Candy's posting:
http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/confronting-bullies/
So, Barry and Ben, if that's the so-called explicit instructions coming from different people *WITHOUT* email addresses, so then, it might be more difficult locating different people who together wrote the letter. That's the big IFs, Ben might me the last person knowing those different people he talked with.....I don't know how it comes up with.
Wow, Is it the new scandal? Is it the new betrayal?
Posted by: White Ghost | 09/29/2010 at 07:23 PM
opps! I correct my grammar. "Ben might me the last person knowing.....
Should have said, "Ben might *BE* the last person knowing.....
Posted by: White Ghost | 09/29/2010 at 07:25 PM
Regarding humor: Jeff's Deaf-Hood video was also hysterical, and additionally, did not name names; it just jabbed persons who called Deafhood a cult, closed society, mind control, etc. by personifying these opinions.
Cobi's video game was in the same vein, but named names. However, we see political figures and other public persons take worse treatment than this, so no criticism of his project from me. I'm a real fan of young people and Deaf thinkers. There are limits, to be sure, but they haven't been exceeded here.
Oddly, on a blog published today decrying the immaturity of Gallaudet freshmen, I posted a response to say that by the time freshmen become sophomores, they have changed a great deal and not to paint all Gallaudet students with the same critical brush. Also added that hearing college students can tell worse stories. That wasn't accepted for publication, however.
But, then the discussion moved on to the letter that was allegedly written to certain bloggers' employers and the roles of Sewell and Vess in it. I have mixed feelings about this.
One: this is a shameful thing that happened in the past--was it a year, or two ago? and keeps getting rehashed because people still hurt about it. Isn't it more prudent to "bury" it, as it was quashed? That it was never sent, even if once considered. That is, erase the slate and start over clean. Would we arrive at a consensus that this was ill-advised and shouldn't ever happen again?
Two: if it it is more productive to bring out the letter, reread it, examine its signers and determine who else was involved and their position on it today, would that clear the air? Would we learn that a limit was exceeded and that all of us could learn from this mistake?
Three: if the letter issue is examined, so should the legal aspects. Damages that might come from such a letter need to be discussed: loss of job, loss of future prospects, loss of reputation, blowback on the signers, public opinion. We all could learn from such a discussion, if done honestly and objectively without fear of criticism.
Finally: if exposure of the signers and people involved with the letter was made, what would it do to the Deaf community? Would we find it useful to know who to trust, who not to trust, know the ethical boundaries of those people, or are we better off not knowing and leaving these people to review their own involvement without outside scrutiny? Would it cause a worse split in the Deaf community or keep it going indefinitely, or serve to heal wounds?
Wrangling and squabbling in cyberspace are bad enough and definitely annoying and disturbing, but at least there is hope of eventually arriving at understanding and agreement of sorts. Damaging efforts such as letters to employers is different. In the former, we can arrive at rules of conduct, but in the latter it is impossible to undo once done.
Posted by: Dianrez | 09/29/2010 at 08:01 PM
Thanks Karen. Really appreciate it. I keep seeing people coming forward with less than half information. While it's always helpful it does not help the issue entirely. I sincerely believe that these people are desperately trying to keep the pin on my back by not disclosing who actually executed the letter(s). That in itself is shameful.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:05 PM
Dianrez... for me, I think it's important that we all know what REALLY happened so that we could make peace with it and move on. We don't need to know who the signers are, just who executed it, and why it has been kept quiet for too long time? It has been three years...
Barry keeps saying he is innocent and we really need to clear up his name and anyone's names involved, guilty or not. The act has been done and people have moved on... with either clear conscience or guilty conscience. People who are involved in the letter campaign are encouraged to come out and take responsibility and we will accept it and make peace... I believe it's possible.
The way I see it, the can of worms is open now and we need to clean up, ha.
I have to sign off so I will leave the comments open.
Posted by: Karen Mayes | 09/29/2010 at 08:13 PM
At last, I am able to find my spare time to catch up and read since last night. Today like many days, innovative educational bilingual activities have been happening with my students and sharing ideas with my colleagues. I have been taking ASL/English Bilingual Professional Development (AEBPD) course (under Gallaudet University) since last year and now onto level 3. Level 4 is the final level next semester.
Karen, thank you for allowing us to have a closure for the last time and yes, this letter thing caused a great deal of distrust and betrayal. I am glad that you could see it is important for us to have this resolved with facts so that we can better understand what happened. We are seeking for the truth and tranquility where we can live in peace and harmony thereafter.
Ben, thank you very much for your honesty and knowing it wasn't easy to be out in the open to share like that. When you came to me a long time ago and told me how you felt that you no longer wanted to be a part of the witch hunt scheme, that was when I gained more respect for you.
Barry, according to Ben, sending these documents to your e-mail group to have them to sign the letters was a judgment error on your part and that was an act of an enabler. Based on what you said which was otherwise, I understand that it is easy to finger-point a leader who tends to get the blame so I am giving you a benefit of doubt. Nevertheless, I am glad that you came to your senses to back out as well. Thank you for being willing to take the time to discuss the matters with me.
Unfortunately, this is not the only case scenario that happened to me. I do not ever wish for this to happen to anyone as they have every right to exercise their freedom of speech not to be intimidated by their thoughts. Heck, this is ain't a communist country!
Based on recent developments and Patti's comments and v/blogs, it has been an eye opening experience for me to become a part of a whistle-blower group (unofficially formed) to pay more attention to abusive behavior as we see it that is not considered healthy and damaging toward anyone, no matter whom. It is not helpful to take sides but helpful to take the right side. Sure, it may be easier to sit back and not to get involved but I realized that if many of us did, then this X vlogger will continue to belittle, intimate and threat certain individuals on a daily basis that will discourage many intelligent v/bloggers which will lead them to leave. I believe that many of us do not wish for this to happen as we would rather for productive exchange of ideas where we can thrive, learn and grow.
We cannot live in fear anymore. I never say it is an easy task but it is doable as we need to take more active role as responsible citizens to maintain a healthy b/vlogosphere for the posterity of our people. Thank you.
Posted by: Barb DiGi | 09/29/2010 at 08:24 PM
Dianrez,
I appreciate your insights on benefits and the lack for it behind this quest for truth.
I think it'd be more prudent to bury what happened but for some reason people keep on bringing this subject up, as it was brought up in this blog. For that reason it's necessary for me to step up to the plate and explain what happened on my end. End result? I gained two things from it. One was Barb's forthcoming side of story. She basically acknowledged that she did not see my signature on the letter. In essence it helped my case. Two, Ben Vess came forward and because he did I learned a couple of things. I was not aware of a letter drafted for Ella's employer. Did not know she had an employer. Did not know that Ben was the one that told the people being accused about the letter. That in itself begs the question... did he or did he not tell them that I had also agreed that it was not a good idea. If not, why not? If he did then what did they say about that? You see, I gained something here from this thread and I'm clearly happy about that.
But yeah, if I had a choice I would have just buried it and let these things pass. I'm sure it was not intentional on Karen's part when she brought the issue up. It's not possible for her to blog about something and be ultimately sensitive to everybody's issues so I don't hold that against her. I have all the respect in this world for this individual, Karen. I look up to her in many ways.
One thing is for sure... people that were involved clearly learned valuable lessons in this one. I don't think any of us would want to go through it again. Many of us were new at v/blogging and it turned out to be a learning curves for many of us. Therefore forgiveness is a necessity here.
I'm not really that interested in finding out who actually executed these explicit instruction and letter. In all honesty I don't really care but because people are still trying to keep the pin on my back I find it necessary, at times, to gradually dig deeper for the sake of peace. I have zero interest in holding anybody accountable for anything here. Just want this pin off my back because I dropped it as soon as Ben Vess dropped it.
I have also given some thoughts on consequences of exposing the signers and what it might do to the deaf community. Is it really worth the price. My answer to that would be no. Not worth it. I'm just asking that people begin to acknowledge the fact that I didn't execute these letter and sent them out to their employers. Everybody here need to realize that as a crusader against DBC I took the role of a fall guy whereas information from all directions were sent my way and because of that people assumed that I originated these instructions and wrote these letters and executed them. Hope this will help you understand where I'm coming from.
Thanks again for your insights.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:31 PM
Karen, for our information I am satisfied with what I've learned from this thread, thanks to Barb, Ben and an earlier video by Ella. I feel validated already. Understand this, I do not feel the need to dig this any deeper than what's been necessary to date unless there's anybody out there that's going to try and keep the pin on my back. When and if that happens I'll be there to talk about it.
I've said plenty here so I'll retire for the evening.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:36 PM
To respond to Dianrez, several letters were sent out to my workplace three years ago some with signatures and some without. Of course, it was not taken seriously and no action was taken. I happen to know one of the signers but I am not the kind of person who will disclose the name here.
Posted by: Barb DiGi | 09/29/2010 at 08:36 PM
Thanks Barb.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:38 PM
Barb, one more thing. I know I'm repeating myself here but I'm saying it again in case you missed what I said earlier. I wiped my hands off it as soon as Ben came back to say he didn't think it was a good idea. And that's the truth. If what Ben did was was good enough for everybody then what I also did ought to be good enough as well.
Take care...
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:42 PM
That's funny as I am about to say the same thing. Actually, I haven't missed what you said in case you missed what I said earlier that I am glad you came to your senses to back out. Take care, too.
Posted by: Barb DiGi | 09/29/2010 at 08:54 PM
Just checked my blog...
I was using the letter as an example of the "questionable behaviors" when I first experienced the disagreement of the opinions and somehow it evolved into something else... to a kind of closure, I guess. So it was unintentional on my part.
No need for signers to be named. If any wants to come out and admit, more power and respect to him/her. Ben came out and we have more respect for him.
All right, nighty.
Posted by: Karen Mayes | 09/29/2010 at 08:54 PM
Barb,
I think you made the wise decision not to disclose these names who signed these letters to the employers in this v/blogosphere. It was the right thing to do. I support your decision.
We don't need to know these people who involved and signed the letters. It would not be fair for the people who would not want to identify or reveal themselves in the v/blogospheres. It's like "We-have-no-rights-to-identify-or-reveal-their-people-who-involved-these-letter-sagas-to-the-employers-in-the-v/blogospheres."
I agree with you, Barb.
Posted by: White Ghost | 09/29/2010 at 08:56 PM
I agree with White Ghost here. Thank you also for contributing insights into this discussion.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 08:59 PM
Oh yea....Ben Vess, we've got to respect him more. I agree with you, Karen.
Me confused with actor Russell Brand and Ben Vess. Are they twins? I'm having a colorblind!
Ben, you're cutie pie!
;-)
Posted by: White Ghost | 09/29/2010 at 09:05 PM
theHolism,
Thanks for the great compliment! I love the vlog jokes you and Cobi made! Always!
;-)
Posted by: White Ghost | 09/29/2010 at 09:09 PM
Ben - Thank you for sharing the facts.
If i remember right you apologized after the blog calling Ella a coward. That takes real courage. It is also good to know that you rejected any involvement in sending letters to folks employers and you had to courage to share them with the intended targets of the unjust attack.
I really appreciate your strength and good judgment.
I would like a copy of the materials you have. You can email me via my youtube account at pdurr.
Viva the truth campaign.
Thank you again for sharing these truths.
Peace,
Patti
Posted by: patti durr | 09/29/2010 at 10:51 PM
"Hmm." -- the thinking man
Posted by: finlake | 09/29/2010 at 11:15 PM
Patti, you still have the knack for selective hearing. Nothing new there. LOL.
Posted by: theholism | 09/29/2010 at 11:46 PM
The reason for the lasting bitterness between "groups" start before letter campaign. DBC leaders attack deaf hoh people many months. Psychopath Sociopath Censorship Defict Thinking Audist Colonalism Destroyer of deaf community.....
Posted by: No name | 09/29/2010 at 11:55 PM
I give full permission for anyone to publish these emails and documents. Unfortunately, ido not have a platform in which I can contribute to this craziness. I quit a long time ago and was reminded in these comments that four years have passed since these emails fell in my hands.
I'm quite surprised this issue still exists.
As for the sweet compliments from all of y'all, thank you.
Mwahs!
Posted by: DerSankt | 09/30/2010 at 12:00 AM
I hate to come back and ruffle some feathers but I cannot allow to have closure with false truths since I just found new evidence based on a document from Barry's own words that had greatly contrasted to what he had said earlier on this thread that I even took his word in a good faith.
I am writing with dismay that Barry wrote in a document as of July 14, 2008 that he had drafted the letter in which he had denied in this thread. He actually wrote "I drafted rough drafts for everything but just need to find a willing candidate to serve as contact person for "concerned citizens". So Barry personally himself said "I" drafted the letters whereas he said he did not in this thread. Does that mean he is lying or forgetting or wishing that he did not initiate the letter writing campaign?
Barry also wrote, "I'm thinking about putting together a group of concerned citizens and submit letters to to CSD Fremont, CA Board of Education, Rochester School for the Deaf, NY State Dept of Ed, CAD and NAD to submit a copy of AIM meeting in which their employees and board members participated with radical comments against CI, Oralists..."
Oh my, he also thought about contacting NY State Dept of Ed! Trying to think about destroying my teaching career just simply because I was involved in the AIM meeting. May I remind you that Barry was also involved in AIM meeting and said nothing, too? We were in stress and focused on planning for the conference and looking back, yes something should had been said but no one said anything not even Barry during that AIM conversation. Anyway, people who know me personally know what kind of person and teacher I am that I do promote each Deaf individual based on their ability to reach their capacity. Heck, I have spoken skills and ability to use auditory skills by using a hearing aid and it doesn't make sense to be framed to be against those who are oralists or use cis. All I am against the idea of those who are denied the access to ASL even to spoken English and the philosophy of Oralism not spoken English.
The whole point here is that I was wrongfully framed and accused and now recently denied by Barry that he drafted the letter. I had seen enough evidence thanks to Barry's own email to the group. I am just disappointed and saddened; however, a part of me is relieved that Barry had found his wisdom that he had backed out. Nevertheless, I am ready to accept his apology if he could come forward and reveal the truth about the part that he actually drafted the letter. Thank you.
Posted by: Barb DiGi | 09/30/2010 at 12:05 AM
DBC leaders attack deaf hoh people many months. Psychopath Sociopath Censorship Defict Thinking Audist Colonalism Destroyer of deaf community.....
I know what you are saying and I do not support these name callings...I do not condone anyone who label these to you and it was unfortunate that it came from these individuals who represented DBC as they were actually speaking as bloggers as they thought. I regretted that I did not say anything before although I spoke with them privately that was not approved by me. Labeling and name calling are not productive and I really hope we can discontinue with this negative behavior. Can we start over? Here is the white flag.
Posted by: Barb DiGi | 09/30/2010 at 12:12 AM
That's possibly the right thing, not to disclose signers and/or executors of the letter, leaving it up to them to come forward as they choose. However, the act of signing and sending a letter to someone's employer implies taking responsibility for the act.
In the case of a truly degenerate offender, signing one's name to a letter is not only responsible, but heroic. An example would be notifying the superior of a school administrator that is criminally exploiting children in the school.
Where such a letter threatens another's livelihood or reputation, people must stand behind it. If they sincerely believe they are doing right, they won't mind exposure.
However, differences of opinion does not constitute reason for harming people. The feeling here is that burying the issue and forgetting about it would not resolve the bitterness, but the preference is to deep-six it because of the time that has passed. This is a sign of willingness to forget it, no?
Another way to handle it would be to designate a neutral person to investigate and report back to readers all the facts, names deleted, and allow readers to respond. Or simply to report, comments closed.
This would have two effects: clear Sewell's and Vess' names and anyone else who had their names dragged into suspicion. It also would put facts before the readers and allow them to realize that we JUST DON'T DO this to v/bloggers.
A concern that was brought up in the last year: some vloggers have threatened or started legal action against certain people for harassment. This shows education would benefit not only bloggers, but also vloggers.
Is it too optimistic to bring more dignity into the Deaf blogsphere?
Posted by: Dianrez | 09/30/2010 at 12:20 AM
Barb,
I'd like to see the document and compare them with my records. From the look of it I think it's been fabricated. I won't know until I've seen the copy. Ridor once suggested that somebody fabricate stuff on this issue. I have that information some where in the file but never saw anything that's fabricated yet. Still waiting for somebody to email me a copy. And again I've already stated in this thread that these information did not originate with me. Already explained that information were coming from different sources. And I stand by these words. I'm protecting the names of these individuals just like you're protecting your the people that signed the letters therefore it's possible that I might have taken over as the "sender" in order to protect certain people but I know I did not originate them. And I don't forget stuff like that.
Fabricated or not, the facts remain the same. They did not originate with me and if for any reason I might have taken over as a sender then I certainly was protecting somebody. If that's not good enough for you then unfortunately we're not going to go any where with this.
Anybody interested in what Ben Vess said in his emails to me? We could go into that as well.
Barry
Posted by: theholism | 09/30/2010 at 12:53 AM
Dianrez,
Let them suspect me. I have no control over their opinions of me; therefore, it would be a tremendous waste of time to be concerned about them, let alone change them.
I see no reason for a "neutral party investigation" due to the fact that someone out there will claim bias eventually. There is no "neutrality" in these kind of situations, only principles.
Each will stand by their own. Not much we can do about it.
-ben
Posted by: DerSankt | 09/30/2010 at 12:53 AM
Dianrez,
I agree on the benefit of educating v/blogers on these subjects. I, for one had absolutely no experience or knowledge in anything when I blogged for the first time. There are a lot of things I'd have loved to know beforehand but did not have the benefit of learning them until I made some mistakes. I see the same thing happening to many other v/bloggers as well. It's something we all ought to look into because it's a learning experience for everybody. I believe it's been brought up by some people but I've not followed them so I don't know if something is being done about it.
Regardless, I don't think this is going to get us any where now that new information are being produced. It's also difficult when some of my questions in this thread remained unanswered. This is weird.
Posted by: theholism | 09/30/2010 at 01:02 AM
If any apologies are due it should come from all directions including you, Barb. You knew more than you were willing to say, upon seeing the letter without my signature and yet you allowed the accusation against me to fly around for a long period of time. I took it at face value because you said you didn't know I wanted you to come forward on this subject and because you were busy. And then later you changed your story and said you wanted to protect the signers. Did I ask you to apologize for changing your story? No. And yet when you saw something on me you immediately asked for an apology.
Patti, you demonstrated selective hearing through out this thread and was only interested in what people had to say against me.
For whatever reason Ben saw it as an opportunity to quash me failing to realize that I also have copies of these email and copies of what else he has also said about the entire saga. And yet I did not threaten him by asking if anybody wanted to see a copy of his emails to me. It's just unethical in my book.
Karen, you can decide what you want to do with this thread. I'm not going to repeat my questions that has remained unanswered. I don't think we're going to get any where with this.
Posted by: theholism | 09/30/2010 at 01:16 AM
C'mon all. We can't just drop things now, there are a lot of open wounds here that still needs healing.
Barry, please, hang in there and bear with us. If there are unanswered questions, please repeat. Some of us don't remember everything that needs to be answered. I want this to work out and I know we can work it out and become the light to those that need to be guided. I'm not saying they can't, but someone has to start somewhere and I think we are.
This is for everyone. Personally, I don't mind not hearing about what went on and who said what, if you all wanna resolve this in private, please do, just heal the old wounds.
I really like the direction this is going cuz personally, I see a rift that can be cured. It just takes time and a lot of hard work and soul searching - something that we, as human-beings, don't like doing.
Posted by: Brian L. Mayes | 09/30/2010 at 01:35 AM
Hey Brian, I'm still hanging in here and while I am at it I've been observing how far people are willing to go to hang me dry, just for the sake of hatred. I find it quite interesting, you know because people don't want to answer some of my questions in this thread but yet they're eager to pick up on anything that might go against me or my words. These people in this thread actually believe I'd be telling my side of story here with an email out there that would contradict my own words. This is what I find interesting. I'm beginning to reach a conclusion here. They didn't come here to seek closure. Instead they saw it as a way to exploit certain issue, taking advantage of hearsays, fabricated information and who knows what else...
They talked about the importance of ethics by preaching why people should not contact one's employer and yet in the same breath they did something unethical here. Fabricated or not, it was still unethical and no different than when I thought it was appropriate to share the AOL discussion with others. They cried foul and said it was unethical. And yet today in this thread they did something unethical. Double standards right there.
When Ben Vess volunteered to expose the email (fabricated or not) I sat here and waited to see if anybody had the decency to remind somebody about what happened before with the AOL incident and why it should not be repeated here but nope... people in here acted like the laughing hyenas.
Repeat my questions? What for? They all are still up there in this thread. Laziness does not stand too well with me. Thanks for your thoughts though. I appreciated them.
Posted by: theholism | 09/30/2010 at 02:16 AM
Be my guest Barry. Post away.
This is my last comment (not trying to avoid this...some people actually have to go to work) I'll be replying to emails. :)
Off to bed I am!
Posted by: DerSankt | 09/30/2010 at 02:16 AM
Other example here for you Brian. Earlier in this thread I offered to email copy of video comment done by Ella who acknowledged that she did not see my signature on the letter to the employers. Well, guess what? Nobody wanted to see it. Ben Vess shows up and say he's got an email on me and everybody went on a frenzy witch hunt and wanted to see it. That part was interesting.
I'll throw in one more example here. Ben Vess only told half of the story and everybody wanted to hear that half but did not express any interest in the other half I had in my email file showing what he actually offered to do and what he said he would do, before and after the explicit instruction was given to him. People in this thread was not even interested in knowing the full truth unless it was exclusively about me.
There are some more examples I could point out for you but I am not going to treat you like a retarded guy. You figure it out.
Posted by: theholism | 09/30/2010 at 02:26 AM
Actually, Barry, the full truth is this: I was more than willing to sign these letters of protests, I admit that. Then i read them and realized the true intent behin them. It wasnt just about disputing their philosophy bit rather their character and decided against it and made that clear to you as well. Now, sticking only to facts..
You all of a sudden have copies of everything when you previously claimed u had no record of?
By all means Barry, go ahead and "expose" me, post the emails. I have nothing to hide.
What are YOU hiding by not doing so? C'est la question.
Posted by: DerSankt | 09/30/2010 at 03:01 AM
Okay, enough.
I am closing this blog posting. I see this has raised several questions for us.
AND it's nice of Barb to come out and offer her hand (white flag)... really nice.
Thanks for contributing.
Posted by: Karen Mayes | 09/30/2010 at 05:13 AM